Friday, July 30, 2010

Questions

Anyone with questions regarding the JONES surname or about doing genealogy please post. Would love to try and help.

24 comments:

  1. Hi there,

    I just came across your blog by accident - after almost a solid year of looking (as close to 24/7 as possible since Jan. 24, 2010) at Jones families in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, Kentucky, Ohio, and Wales, I took a little break to do a google search on another related line -- one beginning with James Fuller of Linton Hundred, MD, b. 1769. And that lead me straight back to more Jonses within a few minutes!

    Since it's about 2:30 AM where I am and my research day is about to end, I don't have time to read all the entries on your blog right now. And I'm not sure how to do searches on these blogs. So, I thought I would just give it a shot by asking:

    Do you happen to know the identities of the parents of a William Jones who died in 1771 in Loudoun Co, Virginia? I am not even sure of this WIlliam Jones' birth year, but it is often said to be 1714. He may have been married to a woman named Mary Ellis and/or one named Mary Hughes, both from Lancaster (later Berks) County, Pennsylvania. He was almost certainly from Pennsylvania as well, and his mother was very likely one Mary Jones who died in Tredyffrin, Chester Co., PA in 1747. He probably lived in East Nantmeal Twp., Chester Co., and in eitehr Caernarvon or Robeson/Cumru Townships, Lancaster/Berks Co., and must have moved to the Loudoun Co. area around 1759. He probably had brothers named John and Joseph, brothers-in-law named John Best, Richard Williams, and John Morris. It is possible that he once lived in East or West Nottingham Twp., Chester Co., PA/Cecil Co., MD. His family most likely came to America from Wales sometime in between 1683 and 1720, probably earlier than later, and was present in most of the following townships in Pennsylvania: Southampton, Bristol, New Britain, BUCKS; Montgomery, Providence (New, Upper, or Lower), Newttown, Tredyffrin, Whiteland, East Bradford, Charelstown, Nantmeal (probably East), and Conestoga, CHESTER CO., Whitemarsh, Moreland, Germantown, and perhaps Oxford, PHILADELPHIA CO., and, as I mentioned already, Caernarvon, Robeson/Cumru, and the immediately surrounding areas of Lancaster/Berks Counties. Other families associated with that of William Jones are those of Samuel Richardson, David Potts, Enoch Flower, John Jennings, John Griffith, Samuel Spencer, Richard Buffington, Ezekiel Harlan, Randal Malin, Abraham DeHavan, William George, Thomas Budd, Cadwalader Ellis, Allen Robinett, Richard Iddings, and others (most notably, Evan Price) - I can provide names, dates, and locations for all. Many of these families came from Barbados and other islands in the West Indies before settling in Pennsylvania in the 1680s. Many were slave owners, including William Jones and his grandson, William Jones of Loudoun Co. Most were probably Quakers, then followers of George Keith, then associated with congregations of Baptist (Southampton, Lower Dublin, Great Valley) and the Church of England (Oxford, Chester, Bangor, St. David's, Newttown (Radnor), and St. Gabriel's, Berks Co. Many have ties to the 7th Day Baptists of Newttown, Birmingham, and French Creek/East Nantmeal. William Jones, himself, donated land for the New Valley Baptist Church in Loudoun Co., VA. A Joseph Thomas, preacher, of New Britain, Bucks, and William Lewis were also active with that church.

    Cont.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Part 2

    The earliest settlers named Jones which I think could be related at the John Jones and Joseph Jones shown on the Holmes Map in what is now Southampton Twp., Bucks and a little to the north. Griffith Jones, the owner of much of the Great Swamp of Bucks Co., is another possible ancestor, as is Henry Jones of Barbados, Griffith Jones of Bristol Township, on the border with Germantown, John Jones, and Arthur Jones of the same area, and David Jones of New Providence Township. But there are many dozen men going by Jones or John in all the right places and at all the right times who are POSSIBLE ancestors - so many that no one stands out for more than about a day. The prime Jones or Welshman with the first name of John who should be William Jones' father is the husband of the aforementioned Mary Jones, who died in Tredyffrin. But I can't even find a clue as to his true name. In Mary Jones' will, a Joseph Jones is listed first among the sons, followed by William and John. And there was a Joseph Jones, who lived on land once owned by Reec John William (went by Reec Jones) in Radnor Twp., near the Radnor Tredyffrin Border. There were a few men named Jones with wives named Mary, including a poorly documented John Jones of Southampton Township and an Edward Jones who was the husband of Mary Wynn. But there are also men named William Jones and Jame Jones/John represented in the congregation of St. David's Church, Radnor, and who could have been the right age to be William Jones' father. Both men named Griffith Jones/John of Tredyffrin could be related, but the man most closely associated with the Great Valley Baptist Church is probably not his father - his son named William Died many years before the William Jones of Loudoun and does not appear to have had a son William of proper age. The earlier Tredyffrin settler named Griffith Jones could be identical to the Griffith Jones in Germantown. Both had wives named Elizabeth. He could also be the same man who first purchased the Great Swamp and who was a brother of Arthur Jones of Bristol Township. But the Griffith Jones of Tredyffrin was almost certainly the brother of Henry Jones of Barbados, and also of the John Jones from Barbados. That Henry Jones, along with a man named Weale, owned land early on in Tredyffrin, near where the Great Valley Baptist Church would later be built. That land was known as the Barbados Tract. Griffith Jones of Tredyffrin had a son named David Jones, who once owned part of the land on which the Baptist church was built. And David Jones' oldest son was named WIlliam. THe only problem is that William's brothers may have been considerably younger than one would expect if they were the brothers of William Jones of Loudoun Co., VA. ... and so it goes, Jones after Jones, from Philadelphia Co., to Chester Co., and on through Lancaster and Berks Counties. So many ties, too many men named David Jones, John Jones, etc.

    William Jones had at least two sons, James, said to be born in 1737 and perhaps married to Mary Todhunter, and Joshua, b. 1739, probably in Bucks Co., PA, who was married to Hannah Todhunter. He also had a daughter, Mary, who was married to John Griffith. Joshua, and probably James, later moved to Wythe Co., VA and then settled in Wayne Co., KY. His wife's brother is said to have brought the first race horse to America (Kentucky) from England. Joshua Jones was a surveyor and held interest in early iron forges. James Jones was a joiner, as were several men named Jones in the Philadelphia area, most notably a John Jones.

    With all of these clues, it should be easy to find the parents of William Jones... but it hasn't been for me.

    I would appreciate any help you might have to offer.

    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
  3. Wow, Sparky, you certainly have done some Jones tree climbling. Have you had a chance to obtain a copy of William Jones' will of Loudon Co., VA? [1771]

    ReplyDelete
  4. Hi,

    I have a transcription of the will, which was provided to me by someone who obtained a copy.

    It seems that many persons associated with this Jones family are poorly documented. For example, the Gwynedd Friends website, which has very detailed discussions of many of the early Welsh settlers of Pennslvania, mentions a number of individuals or families that are mysteries. It is surprising how many of those families have members that are residents of Frederick, Fairfax, or Loudoun Counties in Virginia in the second half of the 18th century. Many are also associated with The Trek - disgruntled Welshman who felt betrayed by William Penn's failure to keep his promise of creating a Welsh barony in Pennsylvania by selling all of the 40,000 acre Welsh Tract only to immigrants from Wales. A number of the Welsh settlers who felt betrayed moved into the wilderness area beyond Chester County, apparently in the hope of establishing a purely Welsh settlement there (in what is now Berks Co.). And, when Palatinates and others poured into that area, many of the descendants of the original settlers apparently moved into northern Virginia with the same goal in mind. Slave ownership seems to have been a big factor as well. Most members of these families didn't stay more than a few decades in northern Virginia but moved (around 1800) into Kentucky, North Carolina, and then farther South OR into Ohio and then farther into the Midwest.

    I believe that the primary reason that these families who were the pioneers of westward settlement are poorly documented is the likelihood that they left the areas where they were born before they could leave many documentary footprints and that they either moved with their extended families or lost contact with their relatives because they were so isolated in far away territories. But, regardless of the reason, it seems that most of my maternal ancestors are the only children who are omitted from family trees made by relatives who stayed in the East. Another problem with my Jones ancestors is that so many of the early settlers of Lancaster and Berks Counties in Pennsylvania and the counties of VIrginia's North Neck were killed by native Americans (aka Indians). I strongly suspect that William Jones had more than 3 children, but, by the time he died in 1771, some had probably already been killed or otherwise died. It seems almost certain that he had another son, named John, who is identified as a sibling of Joshua Jones but not mentioned in William Jone's 1771 will. But I have found nothing whatsoever that would help in determining if that John Jones was the first, second, or third son of William.

    Of course, any child who predeceased William Jones, especially if they died young and childless, would not be mentioned in any later wills. As a result, their given names can't provide any clues based on customary naming practices. I have considered the possibility of William Jones' father being a James Jones/John/Johns, but there is no reason to believe that William Jones' first born son was my ancestor, James. And even if he were, William Jones' father could just as well be a John Williams or a John James as a James Jones. Still, it would sure be nice to find some church records which would help identify all of William Jones' children and the order of their birth.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Was the will of William Jones 1771 the probate or the date that the will was written? Do you have the names of the exector(s), witnesses, other folks given something in the will that did not have the Jones surname? Was there land involved as part of the will? Are the names of the children clearly listed?

    You may need to take a step outside the box and regroup. A detailed chronolgy may be helpful at this point starting with 1771. See suggestions in my blog called Genealogy 101 to start thinking outside the box.

    ReplyDelete
  6. I am attempting to find my grandfather William Lewis parents that is listed in the following records. Many of these individuals came from PA.

    William Jones in Loudoun Co., Va in his will is what is tying these individuals together with their descendants.

    William Lewis was in Loudoun County, Virginia and went to Washington Co., Va where he died in 1784. William Lewis and a William Lewis, Jr., appeared on the tax lists of Loudoun County and in that same vicinity were John and William Griffith; William, James, and Joshua Jones; Benjamin and Thomas John; John Thomas. this group removed to Washington Co., Va

    The 1771 will of William Jones of Loudoun County named wife Mary, devised land to sons Joshua and James adjoining the Dehaven's and a negro to daughter Mary Griffith, and mentioned the Baptist Meeting House adjoining his plantation of which Joseph Thomas was minister and William Lewis and Thomas George were elders. The will was witnessed by Josias Clapham, William Lewis, and Sarah Griffith. is was probably New Valley Church in Loudoun co., Va.

    The will of William Jones in 1771 in Loudoun Co., Va.

    I William Jones.. loving wife.. my son Joshua a parcel of land he now lives on combining with the three hundred acres being part of the land I purchased of Thomas Evans.... to my son James the other part of my land I purchased of Thomas Evans joining the road near Dohni(Sp?) ... give to my daughter Mary Griffith after my wife's death or marriage my negro month... to my son Joshua (can't read but it is he that went to Washington Co., Va)... I give and bequeath a --of land containing 1 1/2 and whereon the baptist meeting ground is built. Joyning this plantation to Joesph Thomas Minister & William Lewis & Thomas George .. congregation forever. I will that my Executor make deeds of convoyants of this land I sold to William Lewis & John Griffith on their complying & paying him what is --to me from them. remainder of my estate to be equally divided between my Wife my two sons James and Joshua & my daughter Mary Griffith.

    Seal 26 day of Month 1771.

    WIAM JOES 9Seal)

    J. Clapham, William Lewis, Sarah ^ Griffith

    At a Court for Loudoun County May the 13th 1771

    This last Will and testament of William Jones .. by oaths of Josias Clapham, William Lewis and Sarah Griffith witnesses .. James Jones Executor Whereupon Richard Williams Williams and Thomas George .. acknowledged their bond in the penalty of one thousand pounds current money of Virginia

    Test : Chas Binns Cl


    On 9 March 1774 in Southwest Virginia "our" William Lewis and a John Thomas had adjoining tracts surveyed; on May 15, 1775, "our" Griffith Lewis and a Joshua Jones had tracts surveyed - corner to each other. These were part of the Loyal Company Grant and was located on South Fork of Holston. In 1782, John Thomas, Thomas John, and Benjamin John were taxed in same district in Washington County, Virginia as were "our" William Lewis and his sons; in 1784 John Thomas witnessed the will of William Lewis.

    On September 21, 1798, Benjamin John and wife Lydia, Washington County, Virginia deeded to Thomas Pierce of Wythe County, Virginia, an iron ore bank on South Fork of Holston; in a law suit of 1807 - Pierce vs. Razor - it was stated that the iron works had been owned by Joshua Jones, Peter Razor, and Benjamin John.

    William Jones gave land to the New Valley Baptist Church in Loudoun Co, Va, To Joseph Thomas, Minister and William Lewis and Thomas George, elders of New Valley Meeting, he bequeaths “a piece of land containing 1-1/2 acres whereon the baptist Meeting House is Built. Joyning this Plantation. It is known as Chestnut Hill, now Luckett's in Loudoun Co.

    William Lewis that married Mary John dau of Thomas John in Loudoun Co., Va are my grandparents. I am attempting to trace William Lewis back to Pa to the Early Welsh to find his parents.

    Any info would greatly be appreciated.

    Marianne
    Illinois

    ReplyDelete
  7. Wow Marianne, you have a lot to work with. The Lewis and Jones families are closely related as early 1635 to Warresquioake Co. [Changed to Isle of Wight 1637.] Pagan Point Creek area with John Upton. Would suggest taking your most certain date and apply to Brick Wall Protocol work book on blog site called "The Brick Wall Protocol". Lots of Baptist came out of PA to VA to establish church there. Lots of Jones involved here!

    ReplyDelete
  8. Hi Marianne

    You show "On 9 March 1774 in Southwest Virginia our William Lewis and a John Thomas had adjoining tracts surveyed."

    My name is Don Martin Thomas and I am a descendant of the John Thomas who had adjoining land with your William Lewis in Washington/Smyth County, Virginia in 1774.

    I feel pretty sure that it is my John Thomas who is listed with your William Lewis as members of the New Valley Baptist congregation in Loudoun County, Virginia, but might feel more sure after talking to you.

    I see in other information that you state you have done DNA testing, so therefore you know that the William Lewis listed with the New Valley Baptist church members is your ancestor?

    I am like you and am having a hard time finding the father & mother to my John Thomas b. 1733. I can not find out where he came from before his listing in the New Valley Baptist church records. I am feeling it is from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania area, but I have no documentation to back up that assumption.

    A Thomas John is a neighbor to my John Thomas there in St Clair's Bottom or Sinclairs Bottom, Virginia. This Thomas John dies in 1806 and leaves all that he has to the children of my John Thomas b. 1733.

    I am pretty sure your Joshua Lewis went from Loudoun County, Virginia and the New Valley Baptist church to the Smith creek & Linville creek Baptist church located at that time in Augusta County, Virginia. Augusta County, Virginia, which was formed in 1745 took in half of the present day State of Virginia. You can see a moving computer map of Virginia counties and when they were formed at this address - copy & paste - push play.

    http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/countyformations/virginiaformationmaps.html

    A Joshua Lewis was received into that church about 1772. - This information is from the book, VIRGINIA VALLEY RECORDS, Genealogical and Historical Materials of Rockingham County, Virginia and Related Regions. (With Map) By John W. Wayland, Harrisonburg, VA. Page, 55. Google is trying to sell this book and you can see the first 60 pages of this book on line. See Preview this Book, after going to this address - Page 55. - copy & paste

    http://books.google.com/books/about/Virginia_Valley_Records.html?id=XSnIvRR9x9cC

    It appears that Thomas Wolsey leaves the Smith creek & Linville creek Baptist congregation, [this church no longer exists, but was located near the present village of Singers Glen, Virginia], and must of traveled to Washington County, Virginia about this time 1772. Joshua Lewis and your William Lewis and my John Thomas might have traveled with this Thomas Wolsey to Washington County, Virginia which would have been either Fincastle or Botetourt County, Virginia at that time. See the following web address - which talks about Thomas Wolsey. The following information on Thomas Wolsey is where I found out about the book, VIRGINIA VALLEY RECORDS - copy & paste.

    http://nefamilies.com/fam/history.aspx?x=123

    I Have notes on my John Thomas that I keep at www.rootsweb.com -

    My John Thomas' notes are at this address - copy & paste

    http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=thomas1560&id=I9

    Would like to know about your DNA Testing? - Don.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Marianne - I made a mistake with the other message. I got a Joshua Lewis and your William Lewis mixed up - I was thinking Joshua Lewis was a son of your William Lewis who died Fincastel/Washington County, Virginia 1784. Sorry - Guess I will quit this genealogy thing, I keep making mistakes - Don.

      Delete
  9. Hi,

    I am afraid I don't know anymore than I have already posted. By DNA testing William Lewis who was in Loudoun Co Va and moved to Washington Co., Va is my ancestor. We match with others from Washington Co., Va. I have Thomas John Jr and Thomas John Sr in Loudoun as my grandfather's too. They died in 1769 and 1770 in that location. I think this group at the New Valley Baptist Church in Loudoun might be from PA as Pennsylvanians settled Loudoun County, Va. We think our Lewis line is Welsh but the Welsh naming pattern is difficult to follow. William Lewis was most likely a descendant of the Welsh that came to America and settled in Pa. The 1771 will of William Jones and a short history of The New Valley Baptist Church seems to be the first that shows connections. I wish I knew more but have had problems in going back another generation. Thomas John has a record of his daughter marrying Henry Reynolds in Chester Co Pa but I also have a record of him being in Cecil Co., MD buying his first piece of land in Prince William Co., Va Fairfax was formed from that and Loudoun was formed from Fairfax.
    This is all I know right now but wish I knew more about all that was living around William Lewis.

    Marianne

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I hate making mistakes and sure wish this Blog site had a delete button. I would delete all that above about Joshua Lewis & Thomas Wolsey. Thomas Wolsey did move on to Fincastle/Washington County, Virginia - St Clair's Bottom or Sinclairs Bottom, Virginia.

      Delete
  10. Good stuff you guys. The Lewis and Thomas and Jones families are alive and well. There is even a Lewis ap Thomas in northwest Wales 1500s which could be a source of the Lewis and Thomas surnames through the same grandfather. How about that. My Jones DNA is haplogroup R, haplotype R1b12a, which is found in high frequency in Wales. Would bet you guys share the same? Please post here or on blog called The Jones Surname DNA. A Abraham Jones was a early settler in Washington Co., VA. Keep up the good stuff.

    ReplyDelete
  11. William Jones (1720-1771) was son of David Jones (1680/90-1759)of Tredyffrin,Chester Co., PA. David, I believe, was son of Griffith John (1660-1707) an immigrant from Merionetshire, Wales. Stephan Jones sjones082@yahoo.com

    ReplyDelete
  12. Have you seen the text titled "Merion In The Welsh Tract" by Thomas Allen Glenn? It deals with the Welsh Tract "in the Province of Pennsylvania..." from 1682. Dr. Edward Jones and John ap Thomas were two of the "Merioneth Adventures". Do you know where your David Jones was born?

    ReplyDelete
  13. To the best of my knowledge David Jones was born in Chester County, PA. I have read his will that clearly states William as his son. He was an educated man as he dispensed books in his will. What I am not sure of is whether Griffith John was his father and from Merionetshire.

    ReplyDelete
  14. David was a Baptist.

    ReplyDelete
  15. David donated land for the Great Valley Baptist Church and was buried there. The assumption is he was Baptist while I believe his father was Quaker.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Does the Great Valley Baptist Church still stand? Where is/was it located geographically? There is a wonderful old text titled General History of The Baptist Denomination In America, by David Benedict. It was published in 1820. I have a copy in my library. It might be of help? It states that most of the Baptist in PA for a great number of years were emigrants from Wales. He also states that the first Baptist Church was called the Coldspring, in Buck's Co., between Bristol and Trenton, 1684.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Great Valley is Tredyffrin, Pa. It still exists: www.bcgv.org/

    This was a center of Quaker settlement as well. Very near Valley Forge, west of Philly.I am working Internet sites to get a handle on whether I have the correct "Griffith Jones/John" as dad for David Jones, father of William Jones of Loudoun County, VA. of whom you write. I may have traced the wrong Griffith back to Wales.

    ReplyDelete
  18. A Samuel Jones was involved with the first Baptist to settle in PA. Have you run across any Samuel? A Edward Jones was the first to be involved with the Quakers. What about a Edward?

    ReplyDelete
  19. A Griffith John has been listed in a couple sources as his dad. For sure many of his in-laws came out of Merionetshire. Time will tell. Thanks for the suggestion.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Hello,
    I found this while researching my family. I am a descendant of Thomas Jones of Loudoun Co. VA. I have had trouble finding his fathers name. Any suggestions.

    Troy Q. Jones
    White Oak, TX

    ReplyDelete